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Re: [sdpd] Comments on COD by anonymous reviewers
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<p>There is no sense of a big debate about this message, if COD is so poor, <br>
why such an agressive manner of telling it !<br>
<br>
To scare us ? I got the use of never being scared ...<br>
<br>
daniel<br>
<br>
Armel Le Bail a écrit :<br>
><br>
><br>
> Are the COD Advisory Board members prepared to a legal<br>
> action against them ?<br>
><br>
> This reviewers comment received aftre the COD paper<br>
> submission is a closing speech for prosecution :<br>
><br>
> Integral text...<br>
><br>
> "As a summary of the history and current status of the COD, this paper<br>
> deserves publication in J. Appl. Cryst., but since it does have some<br>
> polemic aspects, perhaps it should appear in a database issue with papers<br>
> from the established databases. The paper should be very useful - but not<br>
> in ways the authors intend. On publication, it will be very valuable to<br>
> attorneys for the established databases. Directive 96/9/EC of the <br>
> European<br>
> Parliament, and its implementation in national legislation, provide very<br>
> strong intellectual property protection for databases, and this paper <br>
> (and<br>
> the web records of the COD) should provide ample justification for legal<br>
> action against the creators of the COD and shutdown of the COD. The<br>
> Editors need to decide whether they want to become involved in such <br>
> disputes.<br>
><br>
> The COD is sold to the community on false pretenses. Once errors must be<br>
> corrected, changes must be tracked, there is a central repository, there<br>
> are maintainers and developers, data needs to be keyed in by hand,<br>
> duplicates are flagged and reviewed manually, entries are re-validated <br>
> and<br>
> adjusted, and web mirrors are developed, real costs are incurred - and<br>
> these costs need to be paid by someone. Ensuring that data published in<br>
> the COD persists as long as needed into the future also requires real <br>
> expenses.<br>
><br>
> All organizations have learned that it is increasingly difficult to get<br>
> volunteers for anything. The history of all the database organizations is<br>
> that they began as small groups of volunteers, who realized that the task<br>
> was too big for volunteers, and that organizations were needed to ensure<br>
> curation and permanence. If the current COD volunteers are working on<br>
> their own time, that is fine, but if they are "borrowing" time funded for<br>
> other purposes, they are stealing somebody's tax dollars! The paper as it<br>
> stands in unacceptable for publication. Statements about where the money<br>
> comes from now and in the future are necessary. There is no reason to<br>
> contribute to the COD if there is doubt about its permanence.<br>
><br>
> The authors do not make a case why they are wasting worldwide<br>
> crystallographic resources in duplicating effort already done. (Never <br>
> mind<br>
> the insanity of 3+ organizations - FIZ, Toth, MPDS, and ICDD - <br>
> abstracting<br>
> the same inorganic structural data!) The existing databases serve the<br>
> community well, and at a very low price. The authors will admit that the<br>
> track records of governments at supporting scientific infrastructure <br>
> of any<br>
> sort (and especially buried resources such as databases) are very poor. I<br>
> have no confidence that any government will fund crystallographic <br>
> databases<br>
> properly, and believe that a user-pays model is much better in the long<br>
> term. The fact that the PDB is "free" is an accident of history; the<br>
> vision to create it came from a US national laboratory, and funding at a<br>
> marginal level has continued since then. Academics (especially European<br>
> academics) seem to believe that information is free, and exhibit an<br>
> appalling ignorance of economics, and where their own resources come from.<br>
><br>
> Statements that the existing databases are "too expensive" are simply<br>
> nonsense. The databases are supplied to academics at very low prices, and<br>
> in many countries there are national licenses, so the users actually <br>
> think<br>
> of them as free! An experimentalist who needs them has at least $250,000<br>
> worth of instrumentation, so the plea that they cannot earn a few hundred<br>
> dollars to license a database is disingenuous, at best. The existing<br>
> database organizations have made arrangements for developing <br>
> countries, so<br>
> such countries need to work with the database organizations. Anyone who<br>
> claims that teaching institutes cannot afford the fees of the usual<br>
> databases has clearly never contacted the database organizations. All of<br>
> them I know will make their databases available for teaching use free of<br>
> charge. The authors simply make too many incorrect statements to let this<br>
> paper be published at it stands.<br>
><br>
> The ranges used to scan for duplicates (0.5 Å on cell constants and <br>
> 1.2° on<br>
> angles) are far too broad, and eliminate a great deal of potential <br>
> utility<br>
> of the COD.<br>
><br>
> Reference(s) should be provided for the morphology program(s) written at<br>
> Portland State, and for the partial databases of modulated and magnetic<br>
> structures. I additional to demonstrating little knowledge of economics<br>
> and the law, the authors do not exhibit enough professional courtesy in<br>
> their citations of existing work and resources.<br>
><br>
> The authors claim in the Conclusions to have demonstrated that an<br>
> alternative open access database is feasible. My verdict is "not proven".<br>
> Now for the really picky bits... There are several incorrect uses of<br>
> "it's". It is not correct to talk of a "CIF file"; CIF is <br>
> Crystallographic<br>
> Information File. "<br>
><br>
> <br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>-<br>
Daniel Chateigner<br>
Professeur, Université de Caen Basse-Normandie<br>
Co-editor "Journal of Applied Crystallography"<wbr>, www.iucr.org<br>
Editor-in-Chief "Texture, Stress and Microstructure"<wbr>, www.hindawi.<wbr>com<br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>-<br>
address: CRISMAT-ENSICAEN and IUT-Caen, <br>
Université de Caen Basse-Normandie, campus 2<br>
6, Bd. M. Juin 14050 Caen, France<br>
tel: 33 (0)2 31 45 26 11<br>
fax: 33 (0)2 31 95 16 00<br>
<a href="mailto:daniel.chateigner%40ensicaen.fr";>daniel.chateigner...@<wbr>ensicaen.<wbr>fr</a><br>
<a href="http://www.ecole.ensicaen.fr/~chateign/danielc/";>http://www.ecole.<wbr>ensicaen.<wbr>fr/~chateign/<wbr>danielc/</a><br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>-<br>
A Quantitative Texture Analysis Course:<br>
<a href="http://qta.ecole.ensicaen.fr/";>http://qta.ecole.<wbr>ensicaen.<wbr>fr/</a><br>
An Open Source for Crystallographic Data: the COD<br>
<a href="http://www.cristal.org/cod/";>http://sdpd.<wbr>univ-lemans.<wbr>fr/cod/</a><br>
------------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>---------<wbr>-<br>
<br>
</p>
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font-weight: normal;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color: #1E66AE;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->
</x-html>