Re: [sdpd] Some commnents...

[Armel Le Bail <armel...@fluo.univ-lemans.fr>]

>Some comments...,
>
>in my opinion, there is a big difference between
>an internet course and a workshop.

Internet courses are only 5 years old, in general, and much less
for the few powder diffraction courses (1 year). There is some lack
of experience for comparing workshops and Internet courses.

I would say that an Internet course is much more difficult to
follow than a workshop, and that more will stay in the student
memory. The fact is, in a course, that the student will obtain the next
material after having sent his solutions for the previous session
exercises. It is not possible to wait for students results during a
workshop. The schedule must be respected. No evaluation
will be provided - and no diploma. Moreover, a complete real
SDPD is generally longer than the whole workshop duration.
Asynchronous course let the student going at his own speed.

I remember Karimat El-Sayed worrying about the Powder
Diffraction Workshop at IUCr Glasgow : no document at all
was available, nothing was distributed - she considered that
this was not a workshop. Robert said that the documents will
be available on the Internet in a few months. The fact is that 
very few speakers sent their contributions, in spite of Robert's 
efforts...

It would be hard to propose an Internet course without any document.
This is a first big difference. Then, an Internet course will be
3 months to 1 year long, not 1/2 to 5 days. 

>First of all, workshops are a good source for personal
>contacts and it is always of great help to have the tutors
>around (and not sitting some 1000 miles away).

100 participants for 20 speakers, the time for personal
contact will not be that large. Will you ensure for each
participant that they will obtain help from the tutors after
the workshop, by email ? In the Internet course case, there
is no limit in email exchanges during several months. The email
reaches the tutor in a few seconds. The 1000 miles are not
an obstacle.

>In addition, participants are welcome to bring their own data sets
>and I am sure that most tutors will see it as a challenge to assist in
>the structure solution.

Most participants will be there for learning to solve alone their 
own problem. Generally, asking for help is when you do not want
to learn the method, or when you failed after many efforts.
Imagine each participant having 2 real problems : 200 structures
to determine. I wish you this will not be the case... the tutors
will come back home with 2-3 years of work, at least, if they share 
the job. In my memory about workshops, this never happens, 
fortunately. 

>to Armel: You are cordially invited to give a lecture (+exercise ?)
>on ESPOIR if you like. Just let me know.

Thanks for this late invitation.
The advantage of free open codes is that they are immediately
fully available, with manual and exercises with solution. No need
to wait for October. Lachlan asked me for the latest ESPOIR 
version to be included in the package of freely available programs
he will speak about. That is just fine for me. I have already shown ESPOIR
at Glasgow and  EPDIC-7, Barcelona. The conferences and posters
or preprints are all available on the Internet. Exercises without correction
are included in the SDPD Internet course. I am ready to send you
some data at the beginning of your workshop, and see if the
tutors can solve those real problems before the workshop end. 
Remember the SDPD Round Robin, with 2 solutions only after one
month and 70 participants, and indexing was provided. A workshop
is too short for doing completely a difficult SDPD. And quite short
for really learning from A to Z to do it. A big difference.

Armel
http://www.cristal.org/sdpd/espoir/